EDOM, MOAB & AMMON OF DANIEL 11:41

DANIEL 11:41

"He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon." Daniel 11:41

POPE ARRESTED BY FRANCE 1798 ROME PERSECUTED CHRISTIANS

In Prophecy:

• Papal Rome persecuted Christians during its reign from 538 to 1798AD

• Daniel 7:25 states Gods people would be persecuted by the Little Horn.

• The Little Horn in Daniel 7 is Papal Rome.

• This persecution was for a finite period of time - Daniel 7:25.

• This period is described as "..a time and times and the dividing of time."

• This time period is again mentioned in Revelation 12:14

• It is defined as "a thousand two hundred and threescore days." in Rev 12:6

• In prophecy a day represents a year - Ezekiel 4:6, Numbers 14:36, Matt 18:22

• Hence Rome's persecution in Daniel 11 was from verses 33 to 35

• The persecution continued even to the "time of the end" - Daniel 11:35

• The persecution ceased in v 35, commencing the period, "the time of the end"

• It ceased because Papal Rome received its 'deadly wound' in 1798

• France delivered the blow, arresting the Pope & taking him prisoner in 1798

• We are now living in the time period known as "the time of the end".

  
  

Daniel 11:40 states that at "the time of the end" the King of the South (Atheistic France) would push at the King of the North (Papal Rome), delivering Rome its 'deadly wound'. see Daniel 11 study. The deadly wound consisted of Papal Rome losing its ability to persecute Christians and dissenters. This wound is predicted to heal (Rev 13:3) and Roman persecution revived.

The point of all this is, Edom, Moab and Ammon are mentioned downstream of the "time of the end" which commenced in 1798.

If Daniel 11 were to be taken literally as those of the Turkey view of the King of the North believe then we ought to find literal Edom, Moab and chief of the children of Ammon in our world post 1798, escaping out of the hand of the King of the North in verse 41. Is this the case? Does Edom, Moab and Ammon exist today?

WHO WERE EDOM, MOAB AND AMMON?

• The EDOMITES were the descendants of Esau.

• The MOABITES AND AMMONITES were the descendants of Lot through his daughters' incestous relationship with their father.

• Lot's father was Haran, one of Abraham's brothers hence Lot was Abraham's nephew.

• Even though related through Abraham and his brother Haran, the Edomites, Moabites and the Ammonites were the enemies of the ISRAELITES, the latter, descendants of Jacob, Esau's twin brother.

WHO WERE EDOMITES, MOABITES AND AMMONITES AFTER 1798?

Well friend, sad to say but these peoples as distinct nations have been extinct for quite some time.

EDOM

"Archaeological investigation has shown that the nation flourished between the 13th and the 8th centuries BC and was destroyed after a period of decline in the 6th century BC by the Babylonians." Wikipedia referencing [Negev, Avraham; Gibson, Shimon (2001). "Edom; Edomites". Archaeological Encyclopedia of the Holy Land (Revised and updated ed.). New York / London: Continuum. pp. 149–150.]

MOAB

"Moab had become a tributary of Assyria by the late 8th century BC and was conquered by the Babylonians in 582 BC, upon which the Moabites disappeared from history. Their territory was resettled by the Nabataeans in the 4th–3rd century BC". Britannica.com on Moabite people

AMMON

"By the Roman conquest of the Levant by Pompey in 63 BC, Ammon lost its distinct identity through assimilation."

Wikipedia referencing: Parker, Samuel; Betlyon, John (2006). The Roman Frontier in Central Jordan: Final Report on the Limes Arabicus Project. Dumbarton Oaks. p. 573. ISBN 9780884022985. Archived from the original on 10 April 2023. Retrieved 3 July 2018.

LaBianca, Oystein S.; Younker, Randall W. (1995). "The Kingdoms of Ammon, Moab, and Edom: The Archaeology of Society in Late Bronze/Iron Age Transjordan (ca. 1400–500 BCE)". In Thomas Levy (ed.). The Archaeology of Society in the Holy Land. Leicester University Press. p. 114. Archived from the original on 9 August 2021. Retrieved 16 June 2018.

The literal Turkey view of the King of the North and its interpretation of verse 41 does a huge disservice to the text. It is a false interpretation of the prophecy.

Edom, Moab and Ammon do not exist as distinct nations in the "time of the end" and the text demands this to be the case if it is to be interpreted literally. It only takes one of these nations to be extinct to render the literal interpretation false and so it is as noted above.

"He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon." Daniel 11:41

• The word "countries" is italicised in the Bible and does not belong to the text

• Therefore, interpretations based on literal "countries" is a false interpretation

• Edom, Moab and Ammon were not distinct literal nations after 1798.

• The text demands literal distinct nations escaping and not some Bedouin tribe

• Rome conquered the literal KON* & the Glorious land in Daniel 11:16

• Rome becomes the new KON & defeats the King of the South in Daniel 11:25

• Rome (KON) defeats the King of the South in v 25 & ends the Grecian kingdom

• Literal Rome transitions to spiritual (Papal) Rome in verses 30/31

• With this transition, papal Rome becomes the spiritual King of the North

• Compare literal Babylon (head of gold) & spiritual Babylon (feet of iron & clay)

• With this transition, the names remain the same but the meanings change

*KON = King of the North

Hence verse 41 would look like this:

"He (the King of the North, papal Rome) shall enter also into the glorious land, (spiritual Israel, the true church) and many (many church members) countries (countries is not in the Hebrew text) shall be overthrown: (many will be overthrown by Papal Rome's false doctrines) but these (God's people in fallen Christendom, symbolised by Edom, Moab & Ammon) shall escape out of his (the King of the North, papal Rome) hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon." Daniel 11:41

NOTE HOW THE SPIRIT OF PROPHECY TREATS VERSE 41 EVEN THOUGH THE VERSE IS NOT STATED AS SUCH

Edom, Moab and Ammon were not in the glorious land but escape from the control of the king of the north INTO the glorious land. ​

• Literal Edom, Moab & Ammon in Daniel 11:41 no longer exist.

• This confirms that countries & lands in later verses have a spiritual application.

• Edom, Moab and Ammon were related to Israel.

• Edom were the descendants of Esau.

• Israel committed whoredom with the Moabites (Num 25:1-3)

• This typifies the ecumenical apostasy the end-time church is entering into.

• This apostasy is happening with the fallen churches of Babylon. ​

• Moab & Ammon were Lot’s sons through incestuous relations (Gen 19:36-38).

• Moab & Ammon escaped Sodom in their Father, so to speak (cf. Heb 7:9-10).

• Moab & Ammon represent God’s remnant people in the various churches

• They escape end-time destruction by joining God's true people. (cf. Rev 18:4).

“The Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of His people...they shall lay their hand upon EDOM and MOAB; and the chief of the children of AMMON shall obey them.” Isaiah 11:11-16.

This is being fulfilled in the call of Revelation and 14 &18 to come out of Babylon:

“September 23, the Lord showed me that He had stretched out His hand the second time to recover the remnant of His people [this is drawn from Isa 11:11-16 quoted above], and that efforts must be doubled in this gathering time.” E.G. White, Early Writings, p74. (Bracketed comment supplied).

“Company after company from the Lord’s army joined the foe and tribe after tribe [Edom, Moab and Ammon?] from the ranks of the enemy united with the commandment keeping people of God.” E.G. White, Testimonies to the Church, Vol. 8, p41. (Bracketed comment supplied).

Amos 9:11-12 compared with Acts 15:16, 17 shows that Edom and the heathen which follow God, represent “the residue of men.”

When enlightened with the truth and the call to “come out of her my people,” multitudes of God’s people presently in Babylon will separate from the fallen churches and unite themselves with the remnant. (Amos 9:9-13; Isa 56:6-8; Jer 40:11-12). 

“I saw that this message will close with power and strength far exceeding the midnight cry. Servants of God, endowed with power from on high with their faces lighted up, and shining with holy consecration, went forth to proclaim the message from heaven. Souls that were scattered all through the religious bodies answered to the call, and the precious were hurried out of the doomed churches, as Lot [Moab & Ammon being yet in Lot’s loins] was hurried out of Sodom before her destruction.” E.G. White, Early Writings, p 278-279. Bracketed comment supplied.

In keeping with the transition from LITERAL Imperial Rome to SPIRITUAL Papal Rome, verses downstream from Daniel 11:30-39 can take on a spiritual meaning if the text demands this to be the case.

• The glorious land was LITERAL Israel in Daniel 11:16

• The glorious land is SPIRITUAL Israel (the Christian church) in verse 41

• The LITERAL King of the North was the Seleucid Kingdom in Daniel 11:16

• LITERAL Rome conquered the literal King of the North & becomes the KON*

• Rome transitioned to Papal Rome in Daniel 11:30,31

• Papal Rome is the SPIRITUAL KON* after it transitioned from Pagan Rome

*KON = King of the North

URIAH SMITH'S COMMENTARY ON DANIEL 11:41

"The facts just stated relative to the campaign of the French against Turkey, and the repulse of the former at St. Jean d’Acre, were drawn chiefly from the Encyclopedia Americana. From the same source we gather further particulars respecting the retreat of the French into Egypt, and the additional reverses which compelled them to evacuate that country.

Abandoning a campaign in which one third of the army had fallen victims to war and the plague, the French retired from St. Jean d’Acre, and after a fatiguing march of twenty-six days re- entered Cairo in Egypt. They thus abandoned all the conquests they had made in Judea; and the “glorious land,” Palestine, with all its provinces, here called “countries,” fell back again under the oppressive rule of the Turk. Edom, Moab, and Ammon, lying outside the limits of Palestine, south and east of the Dead Sea and the Jordan, were out of the line of march of the Turks from Syria to Egypt, and so escaped the ravages of that campaign. On this passage Adam Clarke has the following note: “These and other Arabians, they [the Turks] have never been able to subdue. They still occupy the deserts, and receive a yearly pension of forty thousand crowns of gold from the Ottoman emperors to permit the caravans with the pilgrims for Mecca to have a free passage.”

• The above is all that is said about verse 41.

• It simply brushes aside Edom, Moab and Ammon as lying outside Palestine

• The interpretation relies on Adam Clarke's view of verse 45

• Edom, Moab & Ammon did not exist as distinct nations in 1798 & to this day

• Hence Edom, Moab & Ammon are to be taken spiritually and not literally

• See Isaiah 11:11-16 and EG White's quote of Isaiah 11:11 as noted above

  
  
  
  
  
  

  EDOM, MOAB AND CHIEF OF THE CHILDREN OF AMMON ARE TO BE TAKEN SPIRITUALLY TO MEAN THOSE OF GOD'S REMNANT PEOPLE STILL IN BABYLON WHO ESCAPE FROM THE HAND OF PAPAL ROME (THE KING OF THE NORTH) IN THE LAST DAYS BY HEEDING THE GLAD TIDINGS OF VERSE 44 (THE THREE ANGELS MESSAGE OF REVELATION 14 & OF THAT OTHER ANGEL OF REVELATION 18) TO COME OUT OF HER MY PEOPLE.